The Mythological Septuagint
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In his commentary on Micah he writes: "The Greeks and those who follow them give the name 'Siren' to spirits who are able to sing most sweetly and so, as by magic, get those who hear them into their power. It draws heavily from Rahner's book, while working closely with primary sources including the Bible and the Odyssey. It also includes numerous links to posts on the Perseus Project for Latin and Greek morphology in order to further explore the translation.
I recommend filtering the posts on this blog by the mythology tag to find the most relevant ones. Other useful tags include "Sirens," "Bible," and " Mis translation. First, I am a Bible believing christian.
The Bible and Greek Mythology | Creation Today
I also use and believe the Book of Enoch to be scripture as asserted to in Matthew , Jude and countless other verses. With that said. We are told of what became of the male giants opn death. Enoch 15 Enoch tells Azazel the fallen Watcher Leviticus 16 that the sons of the giants would become demons after death. Enoch says they became Sirens. When Jesus comes back and judges the earth the Sirens weep as seen Enoch Now if you put Isaiah ,, together with with Job , Micah , Jeremiah 50;39 you discover that there are different types of demons. The Satyr's hairy demons goats?
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All of these demons are different types. Just a Enoch 19 tells us. That they would have different kinds of forms. That is why the Locusts in Revelation are so terrifying. Anyways after studying Jeremiah and Isaiah closely youll notice that when God smites the angels Satan's rebellion during the Tribulation period that heaven is rolled up as a scroll. This is clearly seen in Revelation and Isaiah.
Soon after the Sirens, Satyr's,Lilith, and the demonss are cast into Babylon which in Revelation when it is burnt it continues to burn forever. Sign up to join this community. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top. Home Questions Tags Users Unanswered. Ask Question.
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Asked 4 years, 1 month ago. Active 1 year, 4 months ago. Viewed 5k times. NETS I am not a Greek or Hebrew scholar, so I am finding it difficult to follow what is written about the "sirens", but it does intrigue me that they are mentioned in the Septuagint in six verses, including three times in Isaiah , , , yet English translations of the Hebrew use "jackals" or "wild goats". ThaddeusB 3, 2 2 gold badges 15 15 silver badges 41 41 bronze badges.
Bagpipes Bagpipes 12 12 gold badges 37 37 silver badges 73 73 bronze badges. The LXX is different in many places, for many different reasons, all of which are interesting. But if you want English that corresponds to the LXX, go for one of the above. I attempted; feel free to re-revise if it's not as you intended. Verse 22 [NETS: donkey-centaurs vs KJV: hyenas ] is seemingly in kind and possibly relevant, but it seemed like too much text for one question. After all, it was commissioned by the helenistic king of Egypt, to add another book to his famed alexandria library.
This is not an answer but there is a mistake in the question. The Hebrew is not being translated as "jackals" or "wild goats," it is being translated as "ostriches" or "owls. Targum Pseudo-Jonathan: all translations throughout are by Papoutsakis And the sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah; she was the mistress of qinin and songs.
Fragment Targum: And the sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah; she was the creator of qinin and songs Targum Neofiti: And the sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah, the inventor of qinin and songs The precise meaning of qinin is unclear, but is some sort of music. The Rabbis said: Naamah was a woman of a different stamp, for the name denotes that she sang to the timbrel in honour of idolatry Furthermore, previous research B. The Syriac Apocalypse of Baruch II Baruch provides strong evidence for Papoutsakis' reconstruction: I will summon the Sirens from the sea; And you, Liliths, come from the desert, And you , demons and jackals, from the forests: The language here closely mirrors Isaiah , suggesting a literary dependence or inspiration , but note that Sirens is standing in for ostriches, not jackals.
For example, in the Zohar : There was a certain male who came into the world from the spirit of the side of Cain, and they called him Tubal-cain.
ThaddeusB ThaddeusB 3, 2 2 gold badges 15 15 silver badges 41 41 bronze badges. Beginning on page , he writes: Now when we examine the way in which Christian interpretation of the Siren symbolism developed, we find a process at work which we had already noted in the cases of the mandrake and the willow. In the Book of Job, the central character, utterly forsaken by God, utters his heart-breaking lament over his own spiritual loneliness: I am a brother to sirens and a companion of ostriches.
This is even clearer in the wonderful verses of Isaiah in which the eerie loneliness of Babylon is depicted after its conquest by the Medes: Now beasts make their homes there and an empty echo is heard in the houses. Beginning on page , he says: Such were the siren symbols with which the Greek Christian could re-acquaint himself from his Bible, and there was little left here of the Sirens of Homer. Welcome to Stack Exchange, we are glad you are here. Ruckman is so obsessed with labeling those who disagree with him on details of the history of the LXX as liars that he utilized the term lie in all its derivative forms times in the book.
He is very flippant in declaring others to be liars. In the following quote he tries to implicate 14 authors in a lie:. Unless an actual conspiracy of sorts takes place among them, scholars who deal with areas of mostly objective historical data have an incentive to be careful and truthful with historical facts and data. If a new scholar comes along and provides irrefutable evidence of sloppiness or dishonesty in his field of study, he not only would embarrass and expose the other scholars, but could easily capitalize on that to emerge as a trusted scholar and create a path to advance to the top of his field.
Deception or significant bias in the scholarly community is not unheard of especially among highly subjective issues , but accusations of deception should not be based on superficial observations, subjective matters, or mere impressions. The science of dating manuscripts called paleographic dating is not as subjective as fossils—for example—because every element involved such as the ink, language, letter shapes, size, spelling, grammar, and writing materials all carry clues that help researchers to establish date ranges with reasonable accuracy.
The Book of Matthew. The Book of Minor Prophets. I Pensacola: Bible Baptist Bookstore, , reprint, p. The LXX was written years after the completion of the New Testament, exactly as we have stated in seventeen publications. When others with whom he disagrees provide similar confusing and contradictory information, he is quick to label them as liars, oblivious to his own inconsistencies.
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There may have been, from time to time, B. What led him to this admission is likely the very same evidence which he mocks incessantly throughout his writings on the LXX! We believe this is proof that Ruckman cannot be trusted to treat inconvenient facts fairly and objectively. The following is his admission of the existence of BC era fragments containing Greek translation of the Old Testament:.
But Excelsior! It would prove more than THAT! Christ and the New Testament writers never quoted from the Apocryphal books, and the Apocrypha was never considered part of the canonical Jewish scripture. In the BC era, the size limitation of scrolls in use could not possibly contain many books of the Old Testament, let alone apocryphal books, all in one volume. The codex, barely invented around the first century AD, made it possible to bind many more books together in a single volume, unlike the physical limitation of scrolls. On one hand, if Jesus quoted the LXX as is commonly believed, then it would seem to make it all the more unlikely that it would contain the Apocrypha at that time.
However, if early LXX versions somehow did include apocryphal books in spite of the scrolls limitations, or if separate apocryphal scrolls were considered part of the LXX collection, it would not mean they were intended to be treated as canonical, as in the case of their inclusion in English as well as other languages Protestant Bibles through the edition of the Authorized Version in which the apocryphal books were not meant to be considered canonical.
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He cannot have it both ways. Nevertheless, he persists in making declarations such as the following:. Since there are large and influential religious denominations such as the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern and Russian Orthodox Church that accept the Apocrypha as canonical, writers and researchers in sympathy with such denominations are likely to be biased in their views of how the apocryphal books were perceived, used and eventually incorporated into Bibles during the early periods.
Some seem to want to associate apocryphal books with the LXX as far back as possible in attempts to attribute canonical status to them. These biased authors may have something to do with the confusion over the technical definition of what constitutes the LXX, as some seem to consider any old Greek fragment of an Apocryphal book to be an LXX fragment. The fact that there were several editions available in the second century alone demonstrates a pattern of the LXX being frequently revised.
With this in mind as well as other facts that we pointed out, how can others be so certain that if Jesus quoted the LXX, it had to be an edition that somehow included the Apocrypha? Considering that Ruckman blames just about anything negative about the LXX on Origen, his views on what books are canonical would be relevant. Origen , who is not known for being ultra-conservative in his theological beliefs, held to a Jewish canon of Scripture.
Ruckman is aware that Origen and several other relevant men of the period behind the LXX did not consider the apocryphal books to be canonical:. After saying that the Old Testament canon had twenty-two books in it, Origen cited Apocryphal books all his life and recommended them see p. It is said that Aquila and Symmachus A. Even though Ruckman recognizes that several key individuals have provided their views on canonicity, he persists in treating the apocryphal books that ended up in some editions of the LXX as if they were viewed as part of the inspired canon of Scripture:.
We do not advocate quoting from an apocryphal book in any way that could be understood as attributing to it the authority of Scripture, but if a church father quotes the Apocrypha especially having declared it non-canonical it would not necessarily be much different than a modern theologian quoting a church history book! Ruckman is apparently unable or unwilling to prove when the apocryphal books slipped into the Septuagint, even though it is vital to one of his main arguments as to why Jesus could not have quoted from the LXX:.
How the Apocryphal books got into the mythological Septuagint is a moot question. When they show up, they contain Apocryphal books.
Nonetheless, even though he condemns others bitterly for believing in the mere existence of a translation without a whole extant manuscript of the period to back it up, he exempts himself from his own rules regarding manuscript evidence in declaring there were apocryphal books in early LXX versions! The Geneva Bible of contains a brief explanation of what the thinking was behind the inclusion of the Apocrypha despite their acknowledged non-canonical status:.
What he says of Kahle is very simple:.
Manuscript Evidence , , p. Did Kahle actually say this?